So in my daughters (10) class they use g-docs. Which is fine, I guess.
I share most of @lightweight 's disdain for the entire way this is organized systemically, but that's not what this post is about.

She told me they have a problem where *someone* keeps deleting work from other students. They work all day, and then some kid is deleting documents.
I did a little digging and it turns out...


Yup ~30 kids, sharing a single account with no sec

· · Web · 5 · 7 · 21

Apparently they've had a couple of class assemblies where the teacher has reiterated that it's a punishable offense. But obviously they have no actual way of tracking anyone.

She's a little bit of a rule follower, and can't really understand why someone would continue to do it over and over knowing it's not allowed.

I stopped short of actively encouraging her to burn the whole thing down/commit identity theft but I kinda think the school is getting what they deserve on this one.


Help, We have a system with wide open permissions and someone keeps doing naughty things!

We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas


To be honest, when we're talking about a small group that's closely knit in real life, like a single classroom of 10 year olds and their teacher, I think there really should be enough trust among them to remove the need for access control.

That kid who's causing trouble could as well be going around stealing and destroying the other kids' (paper) notebooks. It's that antisocial behaviour that's the primary problem if you ask me.

This is like saying we should abolish car safety standards because speeding is the primary cause of injury/accidents, and the root of the problem is people making antisocial choices.

I dunno, I was definitely a lot younger than 10 when figured out that not everyone in the class/school/group is trustworthy. That held true in every classroom ever.

In any given group of 10 yearolds there's probably going to be one or two who are not-so-good at following the rules.

@taylan Even "good" kids do stupid things *constantly*. Heck, I once threw rocks through every window of a caravan just because it was there. Showing off? Misguided act of defiance? Honestly I can't remember.

When it comes to system design, it's a mistake to build something around the way people/users "should" behave, when you have direct evidence of how they actually *do* behave.
Any system -computer or otherwise- should be resilient to the types of abuse/attacks it's likely to encounter


When we're talking society-scale, yes.

Car safety standards exist because you can't control the behaviour of a whole nation. (Plus there doesn't have to be ill intent for a crash to happen, it can be an honest mistake. Plus the results can be fatal.)

Computers and networks in general should also have high safety because you can't control the behaviour of a whole nation...

But among a classroom of kids, the prime focus should be on teaching good behaviour, because that's part of what school is for. Trying to prevent antisocial behaviour through technical limitations in that context is a cop-out that accepts that behaviour as normal. It tells the kids that if they can abuse the lack of limits, then they may do so and the blame will be put on the system, not them.

You really don't want to raise kids who only behave good because they're physically prevented from doing otherwise. You want to raise kids who stick to good behaviour out of principle, and because they have empathy for people in their immediate surroundings.

@zyk With computer-competent people teaching, would it be hard to teach kids to use a basic subset of git, any text-based VCS? It might be the threshold concept, the gateway, to getting everyone into decent, light-weight text-based work with computers. People would feel comfortable working in an ecology that lets them avoid heavy Office software. It might empower kids with no internet connection and ancient computers too: work with usb sticks...

Yeah I think so.
The most empowering thing you can teach a kid about using computers is that it's impossible to fuck the machine completely. Go nuts, try things - see what happens.

Obviously you need someone competent to help them out when they get stuck, but you really need to let them experiment with the thing and get some ideas.

From there I reckon it's as simple as feeding the curiosity and providing tools (like git) when they find a problem/use-case it'll solve.

Rather than showing them something complex and technical upfront and making them learn a bunch of theory, you take them on a journey where they end up needing a tool to solve a problem, then you provide the tooling. Kids learn all kinds of complicated stuff when they're interested in it.

I think a lot of kids that end up hating STEM would latch onto math/science/computers if it was taught this way instead of "now kids, open your textbooks to page 5, today we're learning about $topic even though none of you can understand why anyone would want/need to know about it in adult life.
(algebra, physics, compsci, etc)

@zyk @lightweight LOL WUT

They have all the kids using the teacher's account?! What could possibly go wrong! 😂

@explorergrace @lightweight
IKR, the whole thing is so powerfully retarded I'm reluctant to offer any assistance

@zyk @lightweight heard of a school using G suite, all the student passwords were the same. All kicked off when a mum got an email apparently from her child saying bad things

@Uknzguy @zyk that's pretty routine. It's also common to have an all-of-school password algorithm that allows trivial guessing of all student passwords based on their name or school gmail address.

@zyk @lightweight teacher doesn't sound too bright. Our kids all have their own Google school accounts. Very handy tbh.

@DrAli our kids all have their own, too... but I'm not very pleased about it for the reasons I explain here: I don't think our Min of Ed is doing its job with regard to digitech throughout the education system. @zyk

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